Interview - Vincent Flanders of Web Pages That Suck

WebPagesThatSuck is one of the most controversial sites on the Internet. The two books it spawned, aptly named 'Web Pages That Suck' and 'Son of Web Pages That Suck' outline usability flaws, design no-nos, and how to create a usable site.

Vincent Flanders created Web Pages That Suck to champion his view that we can 'Learn Good Design by Looking at Bad Design'. But who is he? Where has he come from? And just what is he doing to Web design as we know it?

Last week, SitePoint sat down this self-proclaimed 'marketing weasel who likes shiny things' and demanded answers...

SitePoint: Vincent, firstly, can you tell us a little about your background? How did you move into the usability arena?

Actually, I come from the best and worst of all backgrounds to discuss usability -- I come from marketing. The "best" aspect is that -- contrary to the misperceptions in the design community -- I have absolutely, positively no religious beliefs about what's "best" for Web design and usability. All I care about when it comes to a site's design and usability is "what do I have to do to make the sale -- or disseminate the information -- through this Website?" In my new book "Son of Web Pages That Suck" you'll see that I'm about the only person in the usability field who acknowledges that cutting edge design can be OK and that there are no "real" rules except "make the sale".

To show you that I don't belong to the cult of the artist or the scientist, I tell a story in the book about a dentist who spent a lot of money on a Flash site. A Flash site for a dentist! I immediately flipped out when he showed it to me because most dentists don't even need Websites, much less Flash-based Websites. Anyway, I told him he was getting ripped off by the designer because the site took forever to load, not everybody used Flash, there were no text links -- the usual usability party line.

Then, I asked him how much new business he got with the site and he told me "$10,000 a week." Without missing a beat I replied, "Your designer is a god among mortals." Granted, he might have made more money with an HTML site -- so I came up with the perfect solution for him and wrote about it in "Son of Web Pages That Suck" -- hint, hint -- but like I said, I'm not tied to the cult of the artist or the cult of usability.

Now, as far as the "worst" aspect of marketing, I'm like every other marketing weasel -- I love shiny things. I love Flash. I love all the excess you see on the Web -- Mystery Meat Navigation -- everything that shouldn't be on most commercial sites. I love all the arty stuff, but there are only a few commercial types of sites where you should use it.

SitePoint: Okay, I'll bite. Where should you use them?

There are two main groups. The first group of sites where you have to use them is on music, movie, band, Web design firm, and fashion sites -- and others of that ilk. Any site where you have to be perceived as cool -- it's the law: you have to use them.

The other group is any site where there's no accountability. Where nobody is going to find out that the site didn't sell product or get people into the store. In Marketing we call it "branding." The Vincent Flanders translation of "branding" is "We're going to spend a lot of your money putting your name out in front of the public, but we're going to do it in such a way that you can't prove we screwed up." Automobile companies are a good example of not having accountability in Web branding. Unless you can order a car online or have visitors interact with you or your dealers, you really can't prove the site works or not.

SitePoint: Isn't that definition of branding a little excessive?

Of course. Branding does work, but not especially well on the Web as the dot-con fallout demonstrated. For every Yahoo! you have 10,000 Webforia's. That's one company I'll miss. I loved their Organizer product. <Sigh>

SitePoint: So back to your background...

Right. I was in charge of database marketing for a software company and one day my boss came into my office and said, "We're going to start an ISP and" -- pointing to me -- "you're the Webmaster." So I became the Webmaster -- this was 1995.

Then in 1996 I taught HTML classes and remembering how much I hated boring teachers, I showed the class all the mistakes other people were making on their Websites. I said "Oooh. Ten animated images. That really sucks." My commentaries were the part of the class everybody liked the best because they weren't boring so, logically, I decided to put up a Website...

SitePoint: Web Pages That Suck...

Yes - it's an easy-to-remember URL!

SitePoint: And the name?

Well, I'm a marketing weasel and I hate everything that's boring -- personally, I think being boring is the only sin -- so I come up with an attention-grabbing name instead of an appropriate one. Not to rag on Jakob (Nielsen) because Jakob really is a cool guy, but I would imagine Jakob would have called it "Web Pages That Have Mistakes." You wouldn't be talking with me today if I'd named it "appropriately".